Thursday, March 31, 2005

A Quote that Makes me Laugh

"If we were really evil, the world would have to tremble... but since we're just gay, they can just gasp in surprise."

-VenerableRyo

*the views expressed in this quote do not necessarily reflect the views held by the curator of this blog

13 comments:

eleka nahmen said...

I'm positively chortling :D

Still Struggling said...

I'm not . . .

eleka nahmen said...

Come on SS, lighten up. Some people really need to learn to laugh at themselves..

Uffish Thought said...

Oh, believe me, SS can. But he also tries very very hard to stick to what he believes is true, and it's quite a battle. Please give him the respect in the life he's chosen to persue and the methods he chooses to attain it as you would anyone who had chosen the opposite. He's one of the best people I know, and his struggle is very real. I don't think the safeguards he sets for himself are unreasonable, and his uptightness in some areas is admirable, I think. Perhaps it's a matter of perspective, but his is valid, too.

Christmas Smurf said...

Whoa whoa whoa. There will be no arguments on my blog. I'm not Latro, and I try very hard to keep it that way.

Still Struggling: If you are not laughing, then you can just not post anything. You have to realize that my blog is a representation of me. I just thought this was a funny quote that came up during a discussion about my being evil. I can see that you might think it's not funny, but I can't see how it would be unfunny enough to make such a comment. I love you, buddy, and I respect what you do and how you do it. I'm not sure how your comment is a "safeguard," as uffish called it. Frankly, I'm getting a little sick of everybody treating me like I'm teetering on the brink of the abyss, yet not so much as saying so. I respect you for being the one to speak with me, but you gotta believe me when i say i'm doing better. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you have your ways of dealing with things, which include a strict asceticism which I admire. I really wish you would let me deal with things in my way, though, which will ever be a much more light-hearted way. People seem to be uncomfortable with the fact that I am no longer uncomfortable with myself. When I first talked to my dad after I came out, he said, "I hope you know we're going to make fun of you for this." His point was that that's the way we deal in my family. It would be more of an insult if the jokes never came. I'm not saying that I'm comfortable sleeping with men or any other horrible thing; I'm saying that I don't feel like I'm walking around lying all the time any more. Some burdens don't really need to be carried around, and I have enough I can't get rid of.

Eleka: I don't know if everyone needs to learn to laugh at thrmselves. I know that's how I deal, but everyone is different.

And finally uffish: I think you might be making the mistake I mentioned on your blog. Eleka gives respect to people and supports them on either side of that decision. I don't really think she meant her comment as an attack. If anything it was defensive, though I imagine she genuinely feels that still struggling could stand to lighten up. I think he's fine the way he is, as long as he allows others that same privelege.

All: I really am doing great. I know that I might seem different now that I've "come out," and the truth is that I am. Yes, there is more temptation in my life now, but there is also a feeling of peace that accompanies the knowledge that I'm no longer being righteous by default, but rather am actively making my decisions. I'm feeling the spirit, and I'm doing what I feel I should. I love all three of you, but I hate to see either side dismiss the other. There is good and bad in everyone, and more good than bad, and I don't like to see my friends thinking each other "evil" or "demented" or "crazy" or "hopeless." You are all great and you all help me love more. Can we all get along?

Uffish Thought said...

I'm sorry. Mine was also meant as defence of a friend, and his opinion, can clarification that he does laugh, sometimes- it was not meant as a judgement of any kind on you or your views, Eleka. Or even an assumption that you didn't have respect for that- just a plea for respect for him in general.

Toasteroven said...

Nothing against your intentions, but "Come on SS, lighten up. Some people really need to learn to laugh at themselves.." isn't disrespectful, in my opinion. How would you say it? I don't/didn't see the big deal...

Asmond said...

Hum...Smurfs, you're awesome. SS, you are too, and yes I know who you are. As for the joke...*shrugs* Whatever. Sorry I haven't been bloggin in a bit...life is crazy and is only looking to get worse.

Still Struggling said...

You know, I sat here for about an hour and a half typing a detailed response, but I realized it's meaningless. We all have things to figure out for ourselves.

VenerableRyo said...

Good grief, who would have thought that a joke made in passing would start such a rash of comments. The only thing that I wish to add is to SS. You may find me as a person or my choices reprehensible. But to you sir, I wish the best of luck in whatever path you may choose. I have been in your place and I know how it feels. There are many years that I spent hours on my knees in tears: of despair, of anger, of frustration. I know that others on your blog have suggested Evergreen. If you find their ideas to be helpful to you, I would agree with them. The bottom line of all that I would wish to say to you is that I would beg you to remember that however you feel about this, (and pardon if you find my saying so offensive) that God does love you whoever and however you are. You are His son, and the problems you face in this life do not change that. Once upon a time, I too, was a missionary and I have a very deep love for the church and for the things that it has brought into my life. Many times I struggle with bringing these differing aspects of my personality together as well. But one thing that I have learned, speaking for myself only... as I would never presume to speak for Smurfed, is gratitude for experiencing this trial. Because of it, I have been granted the ability to see and understand and empathize with those who have many different problems in life. I never understood before how someone could be a drug addict. They know that it's "bad", but still do it anyways. I have learned to see all of those people in a different light. As my brothers and sisters, and to extend them my love instead of my judgment. I suspect that had I never experienced these things, then I would have been a very harsh and judgmental person of others who failed in ways that I did not. Because of this experience, my eyes have been opened.
Lastly SS, let me extend to you my own love. Regardless of whether you are ever free of those feelings within your life, you are not destined to be alone, and a person of the moral caliber that you are endeavoring to be will always find that there will be people around them who love them and cherish them for who they are. There is enough pain and suffering in the world, and although I regret that you find my humor to be offensive, I hope that you will be able to find that ability at some point to rejoice in even the small miracles that touch your life each day. To feel the sun on your face and be amazed at its warmth and the beauty of God's creation. To know that to love another person, to love thy brother as thyself, is to truly see the face of God. For some, it is required to sit in judgment of men, but for myself, and hopefully for you as well, that is not our responsibility. For us, it is required to forgive all men. Since you are not called to be a judge, does that mean then that you have an opportunity to choose mercy? Please show some mercy to yourself. The Lord sees your heart and looks upon it continuously. He knows what choices you make, and how hard it is for you. And it is my opinion that He is there with you. You were created as all men were, that they might have joy. And to fill your own heart with despair and pain does not draw you any closer to God, but may in fact, because of those feelings of despair draw you closer to the Adversary. Enough of the good among us, speaking as those who suffer from SSA have been taken by those same wiles.
You are a good person, and you will not be washed away because of this. I truly believe that.
In the meantime, please try to remember that when comments are made, that there is good in all of us, and that just because we may choose a different method of dealing with our problems than you do, that it does not mean that our comments are intended to drag you down in any way. Such choices are not ours to make, they are yours alone.
With love and understanding. -VenerableRyo

Given said...

Interesting how different people react to different stimuli. I was more offended, well perhaps concerned is more acurate, when I first read the quote, but upon visiting VenerableRyo blog, I found more humor in the quote. There certainly is no one way to deal with this trial, that being SSA. I can laugh at myself quite well and often do, but not usually when it comes to this particular trial. Maybe one day I'll be able to.

eleka nahmen said...

You know, if any of you had ever actually MET VR, you'd see that he's one of the most purely good and loving individuals you'll ever come across, and has a firmer grasp of the gospel than most people I've ever met. And it may make you all, and others, a bit discomfited that he sees the positive, beauty, good, and humor in who he is, but there are definitely some lessons to be gleaned from such. I wouldn't change one single thing about him, as there isn't anything about him that warrants even a slice of the self-loathing that I have noticed in so many individuals. I will forever say that coming to the realization that it isn't something that needs or even should be fixed will do one SO much good.

The Ring Bearer said...

Perhaps the "issue" in question isn't something that needs to be fixed, but as VR is quite clear about is that no matter who we are, nor what struggles we face, we are ultimately children of a loving Heavenly Father. We will struggle through our shortcomings. He understands that our decisions must be our own. He understood it so well that he allowed it to destroy the future of 1/3 of his children. Anyway... I wont go into that story, but what I will go into is the way we treat eachother. I am probably the furthest one from perfect out of all those who have preceded me in commenting, but I can't imagine treating any of you the way that you treat eachother on your blogs. Hidden behind professions of love and adoration are subtle (and not so subtle) stabs at integrity, personal choices, and the very divine nature and future of each other.

Admittedly, certain things are abhorrent to us. For example, I went to conference this weekend and as always, was disturbed by the protestors. Guess what I did about it. Nothing. Why would I? What good would it accomplish? As much as I abhor what they do, and the way they do it, they equally, and probably even more deeply abhor me and my decision to worship the way I choose. Suppose I were Catholic, or Baptist, or Jehovahs Witness... all of our religions have protestors. If I were a devout Catholic, nothing would change my mind, no matter how much someone thought I need to or should be Mormon or otherwise.
When it all comes down to it, I just wish that we could all take a walk in each others shoes for a day... although not literally... I'm a size 10, and I don't even want to imagine walking a day (or even a few minutes) in Eleka Nahmen's shoes.

Please, treat each other with the respect we all deserve, regardless of whether you think we deserve it or not. I know enough of you to know that your words cut to the core. You hide behind a facade of bold words while hiding from the rest of the eWorld how deeply you have been hurt. I'm not by any means telling you to expose those wounds, but remember you are not the only one hurting.

We will all continue to struggle with our imperfections. But ultimately we will be judged by Him who matters most, and you will hang your head in shame when he shows you how your self-centered, narrow-minded, shallow, bigoted actions and words impacted his other children. You will weep bitter tears as you realize realize that you had the potential to lift, but instead you tore apart. Just think the next time you decide to rip on each other. Save the whole world from a little bit of pain.